OPUSBOB: Would You Hire a Known Conniver?
November 6, 2009 – 3:51 pmBob Kreisberg asks your opinion. Would you hire a known conniver?
I want to talk to you today about an interesting conversation that I had with a candidate who is applying for a position with one of my clients. I had a chance to review her personality profile with her and she liked the results very much and she was very animated, so she went on to tell me that she has always been a top sales person, everything that she has every done is life, she has always been the best. In fact Bob, she said to me that I was the very top girls scout cookie sales person, when I was at girls camp. And I said, oh! That’s great. She says, yeah, let me tell you how I did it. On the days that the girls scout cookies were delivered to our house, I faked being sick that day, so I could go home from school early and get a head start on all of the other girls that were in my troop and as a result of that I got out to all the houses first and I got all my cookies sold. And she was obviously very proud of this otherwise she wouldn’t have brought it up.
Now, when I had an opportunity to talk with my client to review the personality profile, and the conversation that I had with the candidate, my client was a bit perplexed about a person who would readily admit to being devious in selling girls scout cookies. And they said to me, we’re a very high integrity organization and if this person who readily admit to being devious about selling cookies, I don’t know that I can trust her when selling my software. I said, well, I understand where you stand. So later that day I had another conversation with another hiring manager and talked about the conversation regarding the girls scout cookies. That manager’s reaction was completely different. That manager said, that’s exactly what we need. I need people that think outside the box and you know what if they are a little devious I think that’s okay. So interesting conversation, curious to know what you think, do you think you’d be interested in going after the person who figured out a way to sell more girls scout cookies by faking being sick or would you see that as a behavioral trait that you would want to avoid in a person? Thanks for your time.
14 Responses to “OPUSBOB: Would You Hire a Known Conniver?”
Bob,
We’ve all done things when we were young and immature, yet if this person still tells the story as if she is proud of it, then I feel that is very telling of her maturity level and ethics – I wouldn’t be signing her up for our organization.
By April Buchner on Dec 2, 2009
I see this as a person that has an entrepreneurial spirit. She wanted to be the top cookie seller, so she figured out a way to do it. She wasn’t doing anything illegal, and I don’t even think I would consider it unethical. The early bird gets the worm! I don’t see a problem with her telling this story either. It demonstrated that she has always wanted to succeed and that she has the ability to come up with creative ways to do so.
By Griffin on Feb 10, 2010
If this is the only,best or latest example she can give of her sales acumen I probably wouldn’t be very interested in having her work in our company much less having her as a friend.
By Sylvan Swartz on Feb 10, 2010
I would hire the person. The Girl Scout’s set the quotas. The parents had to love it…they did not have to purchase 30+ boxes themselves.
Well, talk about devious. I remember that I ran a sales organize where we sold our software remotely back in the early 90’s completing with S2000 & SSA, etc., for PR, HR & Accounting. We had a great solution but lacked the name recognition of our competitors. We honed our remote sales skills to where, if qualified properly for fit, we ended up in the finals. Consistently, the Controller/CFO just wasn’t sure about us since we were less known and less cost. They were on the fence…how to give that little nudge of confidence. So, beat me, kick me, slap me, we would have another of our sales people call (this before caller ID) representing another competitor and typically the person would say they were in final selections. Oh, the sales person would say, I have no vested interest, who are your finalist & I can give you my unbiased opinion. Some would not tell and many would. Well, I can point to (16) specific new customers in one year where the call was made including a PR deal for a major staffing company for their (70+) locations. This allowed us to build that much needed reference base. Ultimately we went from less than one million sales to $20M in less than three years. But then I learned my sales skills at MAI Basic Four in Chicago where, many times, there was more competition in the office then on the streets.
By George Brown on Feb 10, 2010
In our organization, we would rather hire a team player than someone who creates a strategy that creates a disadvantage for the other people in her organization.
By Ora Goldman on Feb 10, 2010
Bob,
This is a new take on the classic ethical problem: does the end justify the means?
Because we’re talking of seemingly trivial peccadillos, a teenage girl cutting class to sell her Girl Scout Cookies, etc., our current cultural tendancy is to forgive and applaud her ambition to “be the best.” After all, she stands in sharp contrast to the backsliding “do nothings” who couldn’t be bothered with a good cause such as raising funds for the Girl Scouts, etc.
But if we trivialize the choices the young girl made, we overlook several over-riding principles: namely, (1) cutting class is truancy, a minor crime in most jurisdictions if not all — and certainly not something to applaud or be proud of; (2) The Girl Scouts lay great stock in teaching their members time-proven principles of highest honor and integrity in all aspects of living. Indeed, the “Girl Scout Law” provides as follows:
“I will do my best to be honest and fair, friendly and helpful,
considerate and caring, courageous and strong, and responsible for what I say and do, and to respect myself and others, respect uthority, use resources wisely,
make the world a better place, and
be a sister to every Girl Scout.”
I’ll leave it to you to count the many violations of the Girl Scout Law embodied in your candidate’s behavior and attitude when selling cookies. If we take the girl at her word, can we BELIEVE that she is actually the “best” Girl Scout? Hardly. But this begs the question, how much weight does she give her her own oath when reciting the “Girl Scout Promise” to live by the Girl Scout Law? In other words, her promise to obey the Girl Scout Law, as given at weekly Girl Scout meetings, means nothing to her. So, is she truly the “best in everything she does”? Clearly, she is delusional and has no moral compass to guide her behavior, despite the teachings of the Girl Scouts. She also apparently thinks rather little of you that you would not be concerned with her sneaky way of life.
In its own way, this story is the same one that led to the downfall of Enron, Worldcom, Adelphia and others. It is the core topic of John Bogle’s recent book, “Enough.”
As legendary newscaster Paul Harvey once said, “If we teach our children when young not to steal from the cookie jar, it is less likely that they will steal cars when they are older.” Somehow this young lady failed to internalize the principles she was supposed to learn as a Girl Scout, and she proudly showed you how shallow her character was years later when already an adult. Recommendation: hide your car keys. And keep looking for someone else to fill the job.
Edward O. Hunter
Corporate Governance Specialist
Irvine, California
By Ed Hunter on Feb 11, 2010
Bob – good to see you in video – you look great. Clearly the ex girl scout lacks humility but I would expect a more contemporary story from her. Maybe she peaked as a 10 year old? Ultimately, I would check her “dominance” trait and does it align with her description of herself.
By Bill Butler on Feb 11, 2010
Not enough information, though there is certainly a string to pull to find out more. I would say to her, you obviously think outside of the box, do you have any other examples in work situations when you have thought outside of the box. Interesting situation. If she had not done anything unethical in work situations that she admits to, then I would probably hire her.
By Ron Harris on Feb 11, 2010
Initially I agreed with your first client as, like his organization, we too highly value integrity and I question the candidate’s. Interestingly, the second client’s comments made me stop and think about this a little more.
I think that the situation requires more investigation. Clearly, this is an ambitious, competitive and creative person who is motivated to succeed and win. Why would an organization looking for a high quality salesperson dismiss this candidate on the basis of one anecdote? Her story may be cause to raise a flag but surely there are some other questions that could be asked of her to determine her sense of ethics before dismissing her as a candidate.
By Paul Lambert on Feb 11, 2010
Working with such a person, you would have to wonder what she is doing every time she would call in sick
.
I think it’s all about trust. You have to trust the people you hire, as well as the people you work with.
By Yarden Ben-Dor on Feb 11, 2010
What an interesting conversation.
Anyone who has worked in sales has run across people who “think outside of the box” to be successful. I think that most sales managers want aggressive personalities in their sales organization.
The problem with this particular scenario is that you don’t know if the salesperson being considered will do something unethical or even illegal to make the sale. I believe that further questioning would be in order to better understand the boundries this particular salesperson has before continuing down the hiring path.
By Shawn Bezzant on Feb 15, 2010
My recommendation would be not to hire this person without more information. A couple of points. It sounds like she is proud of the fact that she took took an unfair advantage over the other girls in the troop. Also, seems she is unremorseful of lying to her school about being sick. Finally, this makes it appear like she has little respect for the bigger picture. The purpose of raising money for the Girl Scouts, an organization whose goal is to build character, teamwork and leadership, is to foster these traits. All this story shows is she is an opportunistic who will cut corners to further her own gains. Making a mistake as a child is one thing but bragging about it in an interview is a sure sign that she sees this behavior as acceptable. Further questioning to see if this was a mistake or truth would be in order. If this was the only information I had about this person I would say not to hire.
By Julia Towne Mendelson on Feb 23, 2010
Hi Julia, I’m with you. Had she kept her mouth shut about her methodology at least it would have shown some gained wisdom and maturity. She didn’t, and that was really the kiss of death. But that’s just my opinion.
By Bob Kreisberg on Mar 4, 2010
Hi Ed, thanks so much for your very thoughtful reply. I’ll be sending out another video in the next couple of weeks on another candidate situation, and I’ll be interested in your perspective on this situation as well. Thanks again for your thoughts. Bob
By Bob Kreisberg on Mar 5, 2010